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THE COUNT TO PENTECOST “PROVES” LUNAR SABBATHS
The only way the Hebrew speaking Jews and the Greek speaking Jews could have arrived at Pentecost on the same day is by Lunar Sabbaths. This is an absolute because the word Sabbath in Leviticus 23:11 is the Hebrew word for the weekly Sabbath and thousands of people have this knowledge including the Hebrew speaking Jews.
On the other hand, thousands of people including the Greek speaking Jews have the knowledge that the morrow after the Sabbath is referring to the 16th (Day after the 15th/weekly Sabbath) of the first month every year because in the Greek Septuagint it says, “on the morrow of the first day the Priest shall of wave it”, it is a FACT that the first day in the Septuagint is referring to the 15th or first day of unleavened bread, and the morrow after the 15th, (or 1st day), is the 16th.
We know from the book of Acts that they where Greek speaking Jews as well as Hebrew speaking Jews from every nation kindred and tongue, including Greek speaking Jews from Alexander Egypt, gathered for the day of Pentecost. Some read from the Septuagint and some read from the Hebrew text and both had to have known that the 15th was the weekly Sabbath because they were at Pentecost on the same day and started there count from the same day.
The point is this, when these Greek speaking Jews read the Septuagint and started their count for Pentecost on the morrow after the 15th every year and they arrived on the same day as the Hebrew speaking Jews that began the count on the morrow after the weekly Sabbath, this can only mean one thing and that is that the Hebrew speaking Jews and the Greek speaking Jews understood the 15th to be the weekly Shabbat and they started their count for Pentecost on the same day as the Greek speaking Jews that read from the Septuagint, i.e. from the morrow of the 1st day of unleavened bread.
In other words, these thousands of people on both sides are right because the ones that believe the morrow after the 15th, which is the 16th, is right and the ones that believe the morrow after the weekly Sabbath, which is the 16th is right.
Later on their fathers had compromised the lunar week for the Roman week and the Pentecost debate began.
Both Josephus and Philo records that the count for Pentecost begins on the 16th which is the morrow after the Sabbath and the Septuagint was read and quoted from, same as the Hebrew text, and everyone was at Pentecost on the same day and there was no controversy among them concerning Pentecost until they adopted the false Roman week that is followed today.
The Universally Jewish Encyclopedia and another 100-year-old Jewish Encyclopedia by Funk & Wag, both records that ancient Israel originally kept lunar weeks and lunar Sabbaths.
Philo the Jew, which lived at the same time our Saviour did, records that the weeks were by the moon and also Clement of Alexander. Most people know that the month were originally by the moon but failed to realize that the 4 phases of the moon were used for the weeks.
At the end of a Roman week you have a Roman sabbath and at the end of a Lunar week you have a Lunar Sabbath.
Click Here for True Pentecost http://lunarsabbath.info/id4.html
Click Here and see that Philo and the Jews of our Saviour's day kept Pentecost 50 days AFTER the 7th Sabbath, which is in line with Lev-23, and "NOT" 50 days after the wave sheaf,
http://lunarsabbath.info/id16.html
For more information Click Here For The Truth
For more information you may call or write to:
Bro. Arnold Bowen
3466 Hightower Tr.
Conyers, Georgia 30012 USA
Or call (770) 483-8542
Email to: YHWHpeople@aol.com
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Amos 8 Proves Pentecost in the 4th month
Amos 8:4-6
4Hear this, O ye that swallow up the needy, even to make the poor of the land to fail, 5Saying, When will the new moon be gone, that we may sell corn? and the sabbath, that we may set forth wheat, making the ephah small, and the shekel great, and falsifying the balances by deceit? 6That we may buy the poor for silver, and the needy for a pair of shoes; yea, and sell the "refuse" of the wheat?
It is likely that the merchants would have said this around wheat harvest, when the "refuse"/chaff of the wheat was still handy and everyone was anticipating the new grain, not something that they would say every New month/moon.
The Hebrew word for “refuse” is
H4651
îÇôÌÈì
mappâl
map-pawl'
From H5307; a falling off, that is, chaff; also something pendulous, that is, a flap:—flake, refuse.
The only time I see that they could sale this chaff would be at the beginning of the wheat harvest when everyone was busy buying the fresh grain.
Another reasonthat Amos 8 fit quite well with lunar Sabbatarians doctrine of my persuasion is because the “very first day” that the new (Pentecost) wheat harvest can be set forth for sale is “always” after the last weekly Sabbath of the month/moon (on the 29th) which is “always” followed by a one or two day new moon feast and this is likely when this statement would be made by the wicked, “When will the new moon be gone, that we may sell corn? and the sabbath, that we may set forth wheat,” i.e. the earliest anyone could sale wheat would be after the new moon day.
The crooked merchants could hardly wait for the Sabbath and new moon day to be over so they could cheat the people in selling them grain from this new fresh wheat, which was mixed with the refuse (chaff). The chaff should be separated from the wheat but the chaff could be mixed in with the wheat around Pentecost and sold "after" the Sabbath and new moon had passed but not before. i.e. you have Pentecost then Sabbath then new moon and then they could set the wheat out for sale but no one would sale or buy it until after the new moon and Sabbath was gone.
The reason I believe that the vision that Amos 8 is talking about is one the three festival/chag each year, which is always celebrated at one of the three harvests, Passover, Pentecost, or tabernacles, is because,
#1. Singing in the temple is mentioned in verse 3, and singing on the Chag/feast is a Law of YHWH.
Psalm 81
1 Sing aloud unto Elohim our strength: make a joyful noise unto the Elohim of Jacob.
2 Take a psalm, and bring hither the timbrel, the pleasant harp with the psaltery.
3 Blow up the trumpet in the new moon/month, in the time appointed/full moon, on our solemn “feast” day/Chag.
- For this was a statute for Israel, and a “law” of the Elohim of Jacob.
So we see here that singing on the Chag/feast is a Law of YHWH and this is what they were doing in Amos 8:1
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 by JaysCharl » September 17th, 2012, 7:25 pm
We find that the timing for the feast of Pentecost (Feast of Weeks) has been in dispute for at least two thousand years, and most likely even longer. When ancient Israel and Judah, the keepers of the Law, have periodically departed from serving their true Creator Yahweh, and went into wickedness and idolatry, (by serving other gods), apparently, over the years, such vital keys to that knowledge were lost. As a result, truth and knowledge was replaced with the traditions of the elders, and went the way of the New Moons and Sabbaths’, (which originally were tied to each other -- Universal Jewish Encyclopedia).
So far, we have found only three articles that agree for a latter Pentecost timing, that is -- in the fourth scriptural moon - month; however, at the time of writing, those articles were absent as to the necessary calculations for the Feast. Therefore, one must return to the source of “clear” scriptures and to the best of our ability and understanding obtain at least some of the answers.
In Exodus 32:5, when “Aaron made a proclamation, and said, Tomorrow (is) a feast of Yahweh”, it was the day of Pentecost, the Feast of Weeks, when Moses received the two tables of stone on Mount Sinai, (Ex 31:18), while the people sat down to eat and to play in front of the golden calf, (Ex 32:6). If one counts from the 15th day of the 3rd month of Exodus 19:1, when they arrived to Mount Sinai, (which was also a Sabbath, just as it was in the first month -- Lev 23:6-8), add 3 days for them to get ready, verse 11, brings us to the 18th of the 3rd month). Then, to that, add 40 days that Moses was on the Mount, thus bringing us 43 days forward from their arrival, toward the end (i.e.: the 28th or the 29th) of the 4th month, or Pentecost, precisely where it should be. Obviously, the simple arithmetic tells us that it is not, nor ever could have been, in the 3rd month of the Scriptural calendar; it was one of the three pilgrimage “chag” feasts -- SEC #2282. They kept the right day but with the wrong actions, (Ex 32:31-35).
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by Bradley » July 11th, 2012, 8:50 pm
There are some LS adherents who believe there to be two counts to Pentecost. In effect causing the feast to occur at the end of the 4th month rather than the 3rd month. One verse cited as evidence for this claim is John 4:35
Do you not say, ‘There are still four months and then comes the harvest’? Behold, I say to you, lift up your eyes and look at the fields, for they are already white for harvest!
Another founding priciple held by "two count" adherents is that Lev 23:16 instructs Israel to count from the morrow after the seventh sabbath as opposed to counting to the morrow after the seventh sabbath.
Here is an alternate rendering of the passage:
(15) You shall also count for yourselves from the day after the Sabbath that you bring the Wave-Sheaf, seven Sabbaths. They must be complete. (16) Then after the seventh Sabbath, you shall count fifty days, when you shall present a new offering to the Ever-Living.”
(Leviticus 23:15-16; see Ferrar Fenton Bible Translation page 118)
If you were to count Seven full weeks from the 16th of Aviv (sheaf day) to the 8th day of the third month. Then an additonal 50 days from the morrow after the seventh sabbath (9th of the third month) you get a pentecost on the 29th of the fourth month. All of this is dependent of course on the understanding that you are instructed to count WEEKS not SABBATHS.
Lev 23:15 And ye shall number to yourselves from the day after the sabbath, from the day on which ye shall offer the sheaf of the heave-offering, seven full weeks:
Brenton's English LXX
Another note is that in order for this prescribed counting method to work properly you would have to have 29 day months.
I personally find this idea interesting though I have my doubts about it. Does scripture support this paradigm or can we debunk it?
NOTE: This is NOT a post for discussing the overall validity of a Lunar Sabbath so please keep in on the topic at hand. Thanks
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by Jean Valjean » August 8th, 2012, 12:14 pm
It is becoming apparent that the count for Shavuot, as commonly understood, is an incorrect count.
A reckoning of 7 x 7 = 49 (days) + 1 (day) cannot be the correct method for counting.
There are about four reasons why this must be so contained in the section heading entitled The Count to Shavuot, beginning on page 46 of the Emet Zerayah paper. Here are the highlights:
During the feast of Shavuot, the following took place:
Acts 2:13
Others mocking said, These men are full of new wine.
“The vineyard harvest begins six or seven weeks after the seven Sabbath count, so new wine would not be available at the end of the seven week count, but it was obviously available at the time of Pentecost.” - Zerayah, pg. 46-47.
Exodus 34:22
And thou shalt observe Shavuot of the firstfruits of the wheat harvest and the feast of ingathering at tekufah (H8622).
(tekufah is the ‘turn of the year’ (solstice/equinox) and is not necessarily 'the year’s end’ as the usage in this verse is sometimes translated. This verse is reminiscent of Psalms 81:3, which we are now learning is describing a single event, rather than two or three events. The same appears to hold true of the above verse from Exodus, which is mistakenly thought to be describing two or three separate events rather than one.)
Another significant point is the fact that in many years we cannot follow a simple 49 + 1 day count from the beginning of the seven-week count and land on a day after a weekly Sabbath. Facts are facts. Sometimes it works (as it has in 2011 and 2012), but more often than not it does not work. Of course, it works out just fine in the event that one is using a recurring seven-day count for Saturday Sabbath observance, but I believe that method to be false and I have rejected it.
With this broader understanding of the evidence, a 49 + 1 day count to Shavuot is not possible for many reasons.
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 by Jean Valjean » August 6th, 2012, 2:52 pm
Lori,
My math is always fuzzy – but try this:
If New Moon day number one of this year was 6 April (which is the first New Moon day after the 20 March vernal equinox), then Passover was on 19 April and the Sabbath (first day of ULB) was on 20 April. Now the day AFTER the Sabbath, we are to begin the count – seven Sabbaths shall be complete (I am counting the Sabbaths as reckoned by the New Moon). The seventh Sabbath, counting from the day after the first day of ULB, fell on 11 June. Then began the 50 day count. 50 days from 11 June took us to 31 July, which was the fourth Sabbath after the full New Moon of the fourth month (so moon/month 4, day 29). It works out exactly, but only if you are counting Sabbaths from the full New Moon (and not from a recurring seven day count or Saturday Sabbath).
http://profoundprophecy.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=48&t=147&start=35
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by Jean Valjean » August 6th, 2012, 6:14 pm
Carrie wrote:
“Shavuot is a Feast of Weeks or Sevens. We count seven sevens. The holy convocation takes place the day after the seventh seven. Another way of saying this is 7 x 7 = 49 + 1 = 50 days.”
I am calling this assessment into question, Carrie. Here is my main reason for doing so:
If we make the necessary calculations for a 49 + 1 day count beginning on the day after the first day of unleavened bread, we will only SOMETIMES come to land on a Sabbath day. It is true that if these calculations are made for the year of 2012, the numbers work out so that we land on a Sabbath (as reckoned from the New Moon. Obviously, the nature of a 49 + 1 day count means that it will always land on a Saturday Sabbath based on a seven day count). What is true in the case of 2012 is true also for 2011. However, if we go only as far back as 2010, we come to a year wherein a 49 + 1 day count does not land on Sabbath, according to the New Moon. This has been a thorn in the side of Lunar Sabbath theory.
Because there is no compelling evidence in the Scriptures of a Sabbath occurring on any numbered days except the 8th, the 15th, the 22nd and the 29th, there is reason to consider the possibility that all Sabbaths must land on one of these numbered days. I am willing entertain the possibility that this is not the case, but I have seen the arguments that it is the case, and I find those arguments to be very compelling.
However…
Since Shavuot is called a holy convocation, and not called a Sabbath, this might be a moot point. If the no-work holy convocation of Shavuot is not deemed a Sabbath, then (according to one of our working theories) the weekly Sabbath count would be interrupted by Shavuot and would have to reset if Shavuot did not fall on a weekly Sabbath. Another of our working theories would result in back-to-back no-work days. But if the New Moon day is a no-work day, then we may not be able to completely avoid back-to-back no-work days on the months when the final weekly Sabbath is followed immediately by New Moon day.
There are several possibilities which must be fleshed out for us to glean a fuller understanding of the various models. Right now, the model which seems to me to have the most promise is the one I have described wherein the count is 7 x 7 = 49 + 50 = Sabbath day. I think this might well be what He is saying in Leviticus 23:16.
Tonight I plan to work up several calendars and plug in these variables. I also plan to re-read the Emet Zarayah paper and pick apart the section where he covers some of this material.
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by Jean Valjean » August 8th, 2012, 12:14 pm
It is becoming apparent that the count for Shavuot, as commonly understood, is an incorrect count.
A reckoning of 7 x 7 = 49 (days) + 1 (day) cannot be the correct method for counting.
There are about four reasons why this must be so contained in the section heading entitled The Count to Shavuot, beginning on page 46 of the Emet Zerayah paper. Here are the highlights:
During the feast of Shavuot, the following took place:
Acts 2:13
Others mocking said, These men are full of new wine.
“The vineyard harvest begins six or seven weeks after the seven Sabbath count, so new wine would not be available at the end of the seven week count, but it was obviously available at the time of Pentecost.” - Zerayah, pg. 46-47.
Exodus 34:22
And thou shalt observe Shavuot of the firstfruits of the wheat harvest and the feast of ingathering at tekufah (H8622).
(tekufah is the ‘turn of the year’ (solstice/equinox) and is not necessarily 'the year’s end’ as the usage in this verse is sometimes translated. This verse is reminiscent of Psalms 81:3, which we are now learning is describing a single event, rather than two or three events. The same appears to hold true of the above verse from Exodus, which is mistakenly thought to be describing two or three separate events rather than one.)
Another significant point is the fact that in many years we cannot follow a simple 49 + 1 day count from the beginning of the seven-week count and land on a day after a weekly Sabbath. Facts are facts. Sometimes it works (as it has in 2011 and 2012), but more often than not it does not work. Of course, it works out just fine in the event that one is using a recurring seven-day count for Saturday Sabbath observance, but I believe that method to be false and I have rejected it.
With this broader understanding of the evidence, a 49 + 1 day count to Shavuot is not possible for many reasons.
http://profoundprophecy.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=48&t=158&p=2891#p2891
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by Bradley » July 11th, 2012, 8:50 pm
There are some LS adherents who believe there to be two counts to Pentecost. In effect causing the feast to occur at the end of the 4th month rather than the 3rd month. One verse cited as evidence for this claim is John 4:35
Do you not say, ‘There are still four months and then comes the harvest’? Behold, I say to you, lift up your eyes and look at the fields, for they are already white for harvest!
Another founding priciple held by "two count" adherents is that Lev 23:16 instructs Israel to count from the morrow after the seventh sabbath as opposed to counting to the morrow after the seventh sabbath.
Here is an alternate rendering of the passage:
(15) You shall also count for yourselves from the day after the Sabbath that you bring the Wave-Sheaf, seven Sabbaths. They must be complete. (16) Then after the seventh Sabbath, you shall count fifty days, when you shall present a new offering to the Ever-Living.”
(Leviticus 23:15-16; see Ferrar Fenton Bible Translation page 118)
If you were to count Seven full weeks from the 16th of Aviv (sheaf day) to the 8th day of the third month. Then an additonal 50 days from the morrow after the seventh sabbath (9th of the third month) you get a pentecost on the 29th of the fourth month. All of this is dependent of course on the understanding that you are instructed to count WEEKS not SABBATHS.
Lev 23:15 And ye shall number to yourselves from the day after the sabbath, from the day on which ye shall offer the sheaf of the heave-offering, seven full weeks:
Brenton's English LXX
Another note is that in order for this prescribed counting method to work properly you would have to have 29 day months.
I personally find this idea interesting though I have my doubts about it. Does scripture support this paradigm or can we debunk it?
NOTE: This is NOT a post for discussing the overall validity of a Lunar Sabbath so please keep in on the topic at hand. Thanks
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by Jean Valjean » August 8th, 2012, 2:49 pm
Steven wrote:“How can one count seven Sabbaths plus one and get 50 being the "morrow after the Sabbath" if the first day of unleavened bread is on a Monday?”The commandment in Leviticus 23:15 is thus:And ye shall count unto you from the morrow after the Sabbath; from the day that ye brought the sheave of the wave offering; seven sabbaths shall be completeThe reckoning which the proponents of the recurring Saturday Sabbath use is to number the seven Sabbaths complete beginning on the day after the weekly Saturday Sabbath following either the first day of Unleavened Bread, or the Saturday Sabbath following the seventh day of Unleavened Bread (already the trouble begins). In either case, 50 days later will always land you on another Saturday. This count entails adding ONE DAY to the seven-Sabbath count; not adding another Sabbath to the count. The day of the week which ULB #1 falls on will not impact this construct at all. This pattern, however, is based on the erroneous assumption that the day after the final Sabbath in the seven-Sabbath count should total 50 days. I believe the correct pattern for counting would entail a seven-Sabbath count, according to the New Moon. The instruction to count 50 days has no bearing at all on the total number of days which the 'seven-Sabbaths complete' count entails. Rather, the 50 day count begins on the day after the seventh Sabbath complete, counted from the “day that ye brought the sheaf of the wave offering”, which is the 16th day of the 1st month.Counting from the day after the 1st day of ULB (the 16th day of the first New Moon), seven Sabbaths shall be complete. Beginning on the day after the seventh Sabbath, we are to add 50 days to take us to the appointed time for the feast of Shavuot. “Doesn't it seem one would have to start the "Pentecost" or "count fifty" from the weekly Sabbath that that falls within the DOULB and not after the First day of ULB?”If we are marking our Sabbaths according to the New Moon, rather than observing a continuous Saturday observance, then there will be no Sabbath which falls within the days of Unleavened Bread. The Sabbath, rather, would be the first day of Unleavened Bread itself. The seventh day of Unleavened Bread is nowhere called a Sabbath, but is termed a holy convocation or ‘meeting of holiness’ (miqra H4744 chodesh H6944).“First, you know the count has to end at 50 on a "day after 7 Sabbaths" which means "first day" or "Sunday".”This reasoning works ONLY with a recurring Saturday Sabbath, which the evidence overwhelmingly suggests is a false rendering of Sabbath observance. Further, this suggested pattern of counting results from what is beginning to appear to be yet more faulty reading of the Scriptures, as has been explained in the above postings and at the topic Are weeks counted from New Moon Day? viewtopic.php?f=48&t=147&p=2895#p2856“Count back and you will always land on a "first day" and logically you are starting a 50 day count on day one.”The 50 day count does not begin until AFTER the seven Sabbaths are complete. “Lev 23 "Even to the morrow after the seventh sabbath shall ye number fifty days;"“How is that not the simplest thing in the world?”I am suggesting to you that you need to re-assess the simplicity of this verse. I do not think it means what you are thinking it means.Please look into the paper by Emet Zerayah -- http://eliyahsmessage.com/time.pdf and please review the evidence which has been submitted in this and the other topic that the 50 day count does not begin until the day after the seventh Sabbath is complete. Much evidence has already been submitted and there is more to be found in the paper by Zerayah.
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by Carrie » August 8th, 2012, 5:13 pm
Jean Valjean wrote:Carrie wrote:
“Shavuot is a Feast of Weeks or Sevens. We count seven sevens. The holy convocation takes place the day after the seventh seven. Another way of saying this is 7 x 7 = 49 + 1 = 50 days.”
I am calling this assessment into question, Carrie. Here is my main reason for doing so:
If we make the necessary calculations for a 49 + 1 day count beginning on the day after the first day of unleavened bread, we will only SOMETIMES come to land on a Sabbath day. It is true that if these calculations are made for the year of 2012, the numbers work out so that we land on a Sabbath (as reckoned from the New Moon. Obviously, the nature of a 49 + 1 day count means that it will always land on a Saturday Sabbath based on a seven day count). What is true in the case of 2012 is true also for 2011. However, if we go only as far back as 2010, we come to a year wherein a 49 + 1 day count does not land on Sabbath, according to the New Moon. This has been a thorn in the side of Lunar Sabbath theory.
Because there is no compelling evidence in the Scriptures of a Sabbath occurring on any numbered days except the 8th, the 15th, the 22nd and the 29th, there is reason to consider the possibility that all Sabbaths must land on one of these numbered days. I am willing entertain the possibility that this is not the case, but I have seen the arguments that it is the case, and I find those arguments to be very compelling.
However…
Since Shavuot is called a holy convocation, and not called a Sabbath, this might be a moot point.
First let me say, Jean, I too am testing out this Lunar Sabbath concept where ECHAD CHODESH (the first day of the new moon) is a day all by itself, is not included in the 6 working days and never coincides with the 7th day SHABBATH. My hypothesis is:ECHAD CHODESH (Day 1)6 Working Days (Days 2-7)SHABBATH (Day 8)6 Working Days (Days 9-14)SHABBATH (Day 15)6 Working Days (Days 16-21)SHABBATH (Day 22)6 Working Days (Days 23-28)SHABBATH (Day 29)Extra day on occasion (Day 30)Having said that, I seriously question the notion that the Day of Firstfruits is determined by counting 7 SHABBATHS, I believe it should be 7 SHAVUOT or SHABUAs. (I'm not a Hebrew scholar. lol ) According to the Septuagint, Leviticus 23:15-16 says, "That from the morrow of these sabbaths -- from the day on which you offer up the dedicated sheaf, you shall reckon for yourselves seven whole weeks, even till the morrow after the last week, you shall reckon fifty days, and then offer a sacrifice of new corn to the Lord."SHABBATH means "a ceasing", it does not mean "week" or "seven"; however SHABUA means "seven" or a "period of seven". At one time I thought SHABBATH was another way of saying seven, but now I understand it differently.I believe the Masoretic Text has been handled. I believe the counting of sevens in the counting of seven sevens will most definitely land you on a non-SHABBATH, simply because there is an ECHAD CHODESH in the mix (never mind the occasional extra day at the end of the month).Secondly, it seems to me that you are suggesting this Day of Firstfruits must land on a SHABBATH. Why? It is never referred to in Scripture as a SHABBATH. Leviticus 23:21a says in reference to this day:"On that same day you are to proclaim a sacred assembly and do no regular work."This day is a MOED, a QODESH MIQRA and we are told to do no ABODAH MELAKAH. It says nothing about being a SHABBATH. I'm coming to believe we (myself included) have erroneously assumed these holy convocations are SHABBATHs simply because we are told not to work on them. But I'm thinking we are told not to work on them because they are holy convocations.Think about it. If a sacred assembly was called (like the 7th day of the Feast of Unleavened Bread [which is the 21st day of the 1st month]), the people would do no regular work, not because it was a SHABBATH (that would fall on the 22nd day), but rather because the people were busy assembling.I mean, why do the holy convocations have to be SHABBATHs? The only one ever referred to as a SHABBATH is the Day of Atonement, and I believe it is an exception, that is why it is specifically mentioned. All the other holy convocations are referred to as either Shabbathons or simply holy convocations; they are not referred to as Shabbaths. The common root for Shabbathon and Shabbath is Shabath (verb that means to cease). That is what the moedim and the Shabbath have in common, but not all moedim are Shabbaths. Many fall on Shabbath, but they are not all defined as Shabbath. Does that make sense?I encourage you to test this out as well. I'm open to further discourse to get to the bottom of this matter. 
And Elohim said, "Let there be light," and there was light. Elohim saw that the light was good, and he separated the light from the darkness. -- Genesis 1:3-4
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by Steven » August 8th, 2012, 7:05 pm
Carrie, according to my research, the priests controlling the Temple believed the Septuagint mimmacharat hashabbat (on the morrow after the Sabbath) in Lev. 23:11 translated as protos (first). This means the “first day of the week” which we call Sunday. First Fruits and subsequently Pentecost was observed for centuries on “first day” or “day after the Shabbos” or whatever term you want to use.  Ancient records have provided us with four models used for counting the 50 days to the Festival of Weeks. Only two are viable-the Aristocratic and Hasidic (Pharisaic) models-for only these two conform with the example provided by Joshua, 5:10-12, that the omer wave offering can occur during the days of unleavened bread. The heart of the difference between all of these various systems, nonetheless, is their differing interpretations about what exactly is meant by the phrase, "on the day after the Sabbath," as found in Leviticus, 23:11. Nevertheless, it is important to notice that the oldest of these known systems was the Aristocratic Pentecost, [The Sadducees, who said Pentecost always falls on the first day] and this was also the system deemed correct by all of the ancient Christian assemblies." (Festival and Sacred Days of Yahweh, by Qadesh La Yahweh Press, 1998, p 258)Opinions varied as to the significance of the "day after the Sabbath" mentioned in Lv. 23:15. The Boethuseans (Sadducees) took this literally and counted from the first regular Sabbath (Saturday) after the first day of the Passover, so that Pentecost would always fall on a Sunday. The Pharisees, however, took the of Lv. 23:15 to mean the first day of the Passover, the 15th Nisan, and thus counted seven full weeks from the 16th Nisan, so that Pentecost would fall exactly on the 50th day after the 16th Nisan. Acc. to this reckoning the day of the week on which Pentecost carne would depend on the day of week the Passover began." (Theological dictionary of the New Testament, 1976, The Jewish Feast of Pentecost)"The Sadducees celebrated it on the 50th day (inclusive reckoning) from the first Sunday after Passover (taking the 'sabbath' of Lv. 23:15 to be the weekly sabbath); their reckoning regulated the public observance so long as the Temple stood, and the church is therefore justified in commemorating the first Christian Pentecost on a Sunday (Whit Sunday). The Pharisees, however, interpreted the 'sabbath' of Lv. 23:15 as the Festival of Unleavened Bread (cf. Lv. 23:7), and their reckoning became normative in Judaism after AD 70, so that in the Jewish calendar Pentecost now falls on various days of the week." (New Bible dictionary, 1996 Pentecost, Feast of)"for the Festival of Pentecost had come around, following the Sabbath day, and we are not permitted to march either on the Sabbath day or on a festival day." (Joesphus Antiquities 13:8:4.).
"Then shall I not be ashamed, when I have respect unto all thy commandments."
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by Jean Valjean » August 14th, 2012, 7:19 pm
John 4:35
Say not ye, There are yet four months, and then cometh the harvest? Behold, I say unto you, Lift up your eyes, and look on the fields; for they are white and ready to harvest.
The observation has been made by the members that there are only two seasons according to the Scriptures: winter and summer. There are but two wheat harvests: a winter and a summer harvest. Calling Shavuot ‘Pentecost’ is a misnomer – this alone is a clue that intentional deception is at hand in the traditional 50-day count. The key to determining the correct date of Shavuot is the summer wheat harvest. Shavuot is the first-fruits feast of the summer wheat. The summer wheat is sown at about the time of the barley harvest. Once the timing of the sowing of the summer wheat is understood, then the meaning of Messiah’s words from the above verse from the Gospel of John becomes apparent.
A 50 day count from the time of the wave sheaf of the barley harvest DOES NOT bring us to the summer wheat harvest. An additional 50 days beyond the seventh Sabbath is exactly what is needed to bring us to the summer wheat harvest and the first fruits of the summer wheat. No summer wheat, no first fruits offering. There is no ‘spring’ wheat harvest.
Also telling is the fact that no set date is ordained for Shavuot. Were Shavuot merely a 50 day count from the day after #1 ULB, then why not simply give it a set time and day? Why bother with a count? And if we are reckoning Sabbaths from the New Moon, seven Sabbaths complete after #1 ULB will not ever take us to the summer wheat harvest.
And finally, if one is inclined to crunch the numbers on Paul’s travel time from after the feast of Unleavened Bread, which he kept in Philippi and left for Jerusalem after the feast, one will see that Paul had no chance of arriving in Jerusalem in only 50 days, when one factors in all of his recorded stops and visits along the way. 30 miles per day was making good time by ship, which was the fastest mode of transport available at the time. Paul would have arrived in Jerusalem early for Shavuot, as all of the devout Yehudim did. Considering all of the stops and non-travel days enumerated for us in the Book of Acts, we can see that he could not have completed the journey from Philippi to Jerusalem even if he left immediately after the feast was over, in time for Shavuot if it were only 50 days after the seventh Sabbath without 50 additional days.
Neither a 50 day count from #1 ULB, nor the day after the seventh Sabbath complete with Sabbaths reckoned from the New Moon, are viable options to take us to the beginning of the summer wheat harvest. Messiah words from John 4:35 certainly seem to corroborate this.
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by JaysCharl » August 23rd, 2012, 8:32 pm
Let us begin our Journey......
to find out if Shavuot (Pentecost) is counting 50 days or 7 weeks plus 50 days..... I'm quoting from a web site called creationcalendar.com, very good website to do study on all these subjects, although he is a "dark moon" follower as i once was, and before i was a "sliver moon" and now for the last year or so a "Full moon" Rosh Chodesh.
We have to find out when the wheat harvest was to determined when Pentecost will be.......... so here is the quote:
"What season was the wheat harvest?
Thus hath the Sovereign YHVH showed unto me: and behold a basket of summer fruit. And he said, Amos, what seest thou? And I said, A basket of summer fruit. Then said YHVH unto me, The end is come upon my people of Israel; I will not again pass by them any more.And the songs of the temple shall be howlings in that day, saith the Sovereign YHVH: there shall be many dead
bodies in every place; they shall cast them forth with silence.Hear this, O ye that swallow up the needy, even to make the poor of the land to fail,
Saying, When will the new moon be gone, that we may sell corn? and the sabbath, that we may set forth wheat,making the ephah small, and the shekel great, and falsifying the balances by deceit? That we may buy the poor for silver, and the needy for a pair of shoes; yea, and sell the refuse of the wheat? Amos
8:1-6 [This summer fruit is apparently grapes, maybe olives, but there is wheat is on the scene. Let’s keep looking…]
But it came to pass within a while after, in the time of wheat harvest, that Samson visited his wife with a kid; and he said, I will go in to my wife into the chamber. But her father would not suffer him to go in.
And her father said, I verily thought that thou hadst utterly hated her; therefore I gave her to thy companion: is not her younger sister fairer than she? take her, I pray thee, instead of her. And Samson said concerning them, Now shall I be more blameless than the Philistines, though I do them a
displeasure. And Samson went and caught three hundred foxes, and took firebrands, and turned tail to tail, and put a firebrand in the midst between two tails. And when he had set the brands on fire, he let them go into the standing corn of the Philistines, and burnt up both the shocks, and also the standing corn, with the vineyards and olives. Judges 15:1-5 [Some might say that the wheat was destroyed which also burnt up the not yet ripe vineyards and olives. This is not the context of the passage, but for the sake of discussion, let’s say that this is a possibility and continue studying…]
Then was the iron, the clay, the brass, the silver, and the gold, broken to pieces together, and became like the chaff of the summer threshingfloors; and the wind carried them away, that no place was found for them: and the stone that smote the image became a great mountain, and filled the whole earth. Daniel 2:35 [Chaff comes from the threshing of wheat. Notice that the season is not in the spring, making the verses above lean in one direction.]
And the hail smote throughout all the land of Egypt all that was in the field, both man and beast; and the hail smote
every herb of the field, and brake every tree of the field.
And the flax and the barley was smitten: for the barley was in the ear, and the flax was bolled.
But the wheat and the rye were not smitten: for they were not grown up. Exodus 9:25, 31-32 [The wheat was not destroyed because it had just been sown. It takes 4 months for Spring wheat to mature making a summer crop, on
or about the end of the fourth month.]"
Be glad then, ye children of Zion, and rejoice in YHVH your Elohim: for he hath given you the former rain moderately, and he will cause to come down for you the rain, the former rain, and the latter rain in the first month.
And the floors shall be full of wheat, and the vats shall overflow with wine and oil. Joel 2:23-24 [The threshing floors are full of wheat AND the vats are overflowing with wine and oil at the same time that the wheat is on the
ground. Grapes and olives are as summer harvest, not spring.]
All the best of the oil, and all the best of the wine, and of the wheat, the firstfruits of them which they shall offer unto YHVH, them have I given thee. Numbers 18:12 [First fruits are only offered at pilgrimage feasts. Olive oil and new wine are summer crops, so is this firstfuits of the wheat. There is no spring harvest of wheat in Scripture.]
Early Sivan (June) is still the spring of the year. In Scripture, the wheat harvest is in the summer meaning Feast of Weeks occurs in the summer. The cloud is moving. We need either to follow or be left in the wilderness."
So it is very clear to me that Shavuot/petecost must be in the summer and not in spring, and if you count only 7 weeks/sabbath (which is only possible if you count on a solar-Lunnar cycle of lunnar sabbaths) then you will arrive too early and will miss the whole feast.... there is much more, but go and search these Scriptures first and pray for scales to be removed and you must have the right Lev/heart to understand.... many blessings in Yahusho our Messiah's Name
- JaysCharl
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- Posts: 35
- Joined: July 30th, 2012, 11:51 pm
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by JaysCharl » August 23rd, 2012, 10:48 pm
Shalom again,Yes we celebrated Shavuot on the 29th of the 4th month which fell on the 2 Aug 2012..... It has been our second year doing it in this way, it has been truely been a blessing..... Go read the whole account of Moses ariving at Mount Sinai and forget any preconceived ideas on this subject and you will see clearly that it all adds up.  We first have to get rid of traditional thoughts before we will see the TRUTH, assumptions is what got us into tradition in the first place.And to answer the question, i think there is four seasons in a year, Abib is clearly when growth starts and that is then the begining of spring.... here is a quote from a website if you would like to do futher study into this matter:http://the7lostpilgrimfeasts.webs.com/t ... nsfour.htm Equinox - Tekufah The earth, which is tilted 23.5 degrees, circles the sun on the ecliptic plain creating our seasons (spring, summer, fall and winter). The equinox occurs when the sun “crosses” the equator. Therefore, the equinox occurs because of the action of earth's orbit around the sun. The Hebrew word is tekufah (singular), meaning "feast circuit", and refers to the solstices as well as to the equinoxes. Tekufot (plural) means “seasons;” literally, “circuit, to go round.” or “feast circuit” The four seasons in the year are called tekufot. More accurately, the first tekufah is the beginning of the four seasons.• The tekufah (singular) of Abib denotes the sun at the vernal (spring) equinox. • The next tekufah denotes the summer solstice. • The third tekufah denotes the fall equinox. • The fourth tekufah denotes the winter solstice. Tekufah appears in the Scriptures four times, and relates to the calendar at least three times: “And it came to pass at the end (tekufah) of the year, that the host of Syria came up against him:” (2 Chr. 24:23). “And thou shalt observe the feast of weeks, of the firstfruits of wheat harvest, and the feast of ingathering at the years end. (tekufah)” (Ex. 34:22). “Wherefore it came to pass, when the time was come (tekufah) about after Hannah had conceived, that she bare a son,” (1 Sam. 1:20). That passage probably refers to the calendar year. However, all the above Scripture references indicate that the ancients new about, and understood, the solar seasonal points of the equinoxes and solstices. The Annual Tekufot The sun's yearly circuit through the equinoxes and solstices is described by David: “Their line (heavenly calendar) is gone out through all the earth, and their words to the end of the world. In them hath he set a tabernacle for the sun, Which is as a bridegroom coming out of his chamber, and rejoiceth as a strong man to run a race. His going forth is from the end of the heaven, and his circuit (tekufot) unto the ends of it: and there is nothing hid from the heat thereof.” (Ps. 19:4-6).But you can read more about it on the website I have mentioned above.....
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by JaysCharl » August 23rd, 2012, 11:12 pm
The Challenge: The way most count to Feast of Weeks/Pentecost is not according to the evidence in Scripture. We presently count 7 Sabbaths complete (7 complete weeks) from Wave Sheaf (the 16th of Abib) then add one day. Pentecost is said to be the 50th day from Wave Sheaf or the 6th, 7th or 8th day of Sivan. Is this accurate? Most feast keepers believe that the Law was handed down from Sinai on “Pentecost”. This is true, just not the way we presently do the count.
The evidence: Exodus 19:1 says that the children of Israel arrived at Sinai on the 16th day of the third month. Please read the context. Moses indicates that the children of Israel rested at Rephidim the 15th of the third month. The root word for Rephidim means “rest” and this passage says that they arrived at the Wilderness of Sinai the “same day” of this month that they left Egypt (two months earlier). If you’ll remember, Israel got as far as Succoth the 15th, and actually left Egypt the on the 16th. Numbers 33:3-6.
Israel left after the Death Angel passed over, leaving early on Abib 15.]
“And it happened in the first year of the exodus of the children of Israel out of Egypt, in the 3rd month, on the 16th of this month, and YHVH spoke to Moshe saying: “Ascend to me here on the mountain, and I will give to thee the two stone tablets of the law and the commandments; as I
have written them, thou shalt make them known.” Jubilees 1:1. Their arrival date, the 16th of Sivan (the third month) is well past our present count to Feast of Weeks which occurs the 6th, 7th or 8th of Sivan (depending on who is counting).
The New Evidence to Consider: There are two parts or two counts that must be made before Pentecost can be “fully come.” In addition to the 7 Sabbaths complete, we need to add 50 days, not just add one day for a total of 50 days. Leviticus 23:15-16 in the KJV is not as clear as it could be. We would be in trouble if the King James English of this passage were the only
evidence for what we are presenting. Providentially, there is plenty of evidence…
Exhibit A: Leviticus 23 is the passage in question. Remember, a Sabbath complete (one week)is a different yardstick in time than a day. There is a 7 week count and a 50 day count. You, like most (and like me until three years ago) probably see “seven Sabbaths complete” (seven weeks)
and immediately think 49 days. But there are not 49 days in this segment of time. These are Scriptural weeks--six work days ending with a Sabbath. New moon days are a third category of day, they do not count against the week. There are three new moon days in this seven week count for a total of 52 days, so adding one day to 52 days does not equal 50."
Taken from creationcalendar.com
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EL 22 DE FEBRERO DEL 2005, ES EL DIA NUMERO 1260 DESDE EL 11 DE SEPTIEMBRE DEL 2001
964. Apocalipsis 11:3: Y daré a mis dos testigos que profeticen por mil doscientos sesenta días, vestidos de cilicio.
965. Apocalipsis 11:6: Estos tienen poder para cerrar el cielo, a fin de que no llueva en los días de su profecía; y tienen poder sobre las aguas para convertirlas en sangre, y para herir la tierra con toda plaga, cuantas veces quieran.
966. Apocalipsis 11:9: Y los de los pueblos, tribus, lenguas y naciones verán sus cadáveres por tres días y medio, y no permitirán que sean sepultados.
967. Apocalipsis 11:11: Pero después de tres días y medio entró en ellos el espíritu de vida enviado por Dios, y se levantaron sobre sus pies, y cayó gran temor sobre los que los vieron.
968. Apocalipsis 12:6: Y la mujer huyó al desierto, donde tiene lugar preparado por Dios, para que allí la sustenten por mil doscientos sesenta días.
23 DE FEBRERO=ROSH HASHANAH
21 DE JULIO (SOLSTICIO DE VERANO/QUINTA LUNA LLENA)=DIA NUMERO 119 (VERDADERO SHAVUOT)
20 DE SEPTIEMBRE=SEPTIMA LUNA LLENA=FIESTA DE LAS TROMPETAS
29 DE SEPTIEMBRE=DIA DE LA EXPIACION
4 DE OCTUBRE=FIESTA DE LOS TABERNACULOS
11 DE OCTUBRE=SIMCHAT TORA (REGOCIJO EN LA TORA)=OCTAVO DIA
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